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D/s- Help With A Bigger Picture, A Broader Scope
Very sorry for the length of this post, which is serving now as a long overdue introduction, as well as a request for help/support with helping us define the lifestyle for us to create a better foundation. I wrote “Courageous Love” initially with the members of subMrs in mind, hoping to get some advise and insight on how to deal with how I am feeling, what I could do to help my struggling Dom and myself, or just to find out if anyone else understands what I mean before I attempted to tell and possibly confuse my bf/Dom, Bear (member of husDom).
I brought up D/s about 18 mos. ago. I believed the almost natural D/s dynamic of our then 18 month long relationship was worth some consideration and started researching. Once I felt more sure that this dynamic sort of mirrored us, I shared what I was learning with him. I learned he’d been in a BDSM relationship many years before with a masochist, and he had many reservations about repeating what he’d come to feel were mistakes for him. He had taken on a role that left him feeling bad about himself and little respect for her. Not because of her needs, but because he didn’t stay true to himself. I tried understanding him, and clarifying what i was learning. Being so new to it all myself, it was difficult to contrast for him my vision to his past experience. I was learning about exotic pain pleasure and admitting my desire for that, but this further blurred the line he didn’t want to cross. I tried describing the Dominant traits I saw in him, the things he did that drew my submissive nature out, but communication has been a struggle for us. And, getting on the same page about this dynamic, our places in it, and when, where, and how to consciously apply it to our lives together has included many starts and stops.
Aside from our struggles with establishing D/s, life has thrown a few curves, too. You know how that can go. Recently, during another stop and almost total quit of us altogether, he sought some much needed help from the husDom community, and has since begun seeing this lifestyle in a new light, dispelling some misunderstandings about becoming something he is not, and seeing the role of Dominant/care giver more clearly. He’s a natural care giver, and I have had to learn to receive that care. It was a big catalyst for this whole thing (along with some pretty passionate controlling things he had thrown on me before all this came up :).
I’m extremely grateful to Mr.Fox and the other husDoms who took the time to help him/us out. We’ve implemented downtime once a week (we live together), and emotional safety and trust are slowly being restored as he practices listening, and I practice trusting my emotions with him once more. We are still struggling with consistency, communication, and more, but i figure with time and practice and more communication, we will get where we want to be. Trouble is, im not sure he does understand where i would like us to be, and i can’t seem to find out from him what his vision is. I tried in the piece below to capture what I thought was missing or had eroded that i feel could be restored and nurtured in this dynamic, so that once I had more input from others I could go to him and speak clearly to him about it. Instead, I shared it with him just prior to our downtime, so he might have a little time to formulate questions. He does tend to be defensive, and forgets to ask questions first; I tend to be too frank or direct, and it can come across as critisism. He’s done very well in downtime, though. He told me to go ahead and post this so I could share the input with him. When I asked what he was looking for, he said the interpretation from others, opinions, and whatever else you guys might see in this that you think woukd help in any way. For my part, please don’t worry too much about sparing my feelings. I already suspect that i’m feeling a bit sorry for myself, though, i cant be objective enough to be sure. It’s okay to say that out loud if you think it will help. Is this harsh?
“Courageous Loving…Growing Out of the Box”
Does anyone know what it feels like to want to be helped off of the pedestal? I feel guilty and ungrateful just thinking about this, but I can’t help that all the sweet words do not reach me, not like they once did. Sweetness is wonderful in good measure. What my vanilla life of 43 years has largely consisted of has been overdoses of sweet one day with a major swing to the bitter the next. But a little salty with the sweet is the best, is what I need.Don’t get me wrong, it is nice to be reminded that I’m loved, to hear the words and know I’m on his mind. But, what if I do not want to be treated so carefully? What if, though wanting respect, I want him to correct me when I’m wrong for my or our good, teach me something, and make demands of me for his pleasure, peace of mind, or happiness so I can feel I’ve given something back or done anything at all to be worthy of the affections he claims. I dont believe people must earn grace, but we do need to earn trust, we are appreciated by others for actions or our character, the way we treat them, ourselves, and others. Our best efforts often unsung, it would be nice to be given a note or two from someone who notices.
If i was worthy of a throne, i would rightfully want to be shown the depth of his proclamations of love and desire for me through meaningful actions or more descriptive words. Instead of just, i love you, you’re on my mind, I’m grateful for you, you’re the love of my life, why not tell me what he loves about me, what he’s thinking about specifically while I’m on his mind, what it means to him that I am the love of his life and what makes me so? The things he says are beautiful sentiments, but they don’t tell me anything about him or me. They dont let me see him, or myself through him. I would want the Hallmark card, but more real, not the 99 cent card.
What do actions of love look like to me? I can’t say that I know, exactly. Maybe they look like a curiosity and willingness to explore what does reach me; discover the things I’m passionate about, let me share and experience with him what he is passionate about, use that information to engage with me and us. Maybe it looks like him insisting that i do for him in a given moment, trusting me with that, so i can grow beyond myself little by little and impact his life in meaningful ways. Maybe, it looks like a calm and thorough but respectful chastisement for not following through on something or some other area where some attention may be warranted for my growth or our good, without being afraid of my reaction; or at least doing it anyway, regardless of fear, and being willing to learn from my reaction, and correct again if needed.
I think he thinks how he feels should be enough to reach me, and maybe it should, maybe it would, if it didn’t seem so undefined and unsupported. He does sweet things for me, things i’ve learned to receive and enjoy. But, how do his feelings about and for me actually affect my life and our lives? What impact does his participation in his love for me have on my life? Do i have a new appreciation or understanding of things he has introduced to me, or explained about himself, or shown me in love? I felt sure that he would, when we met. And, at first he did. But, that was so short lived, and despite my interest, we haven’t delved further together.
How does being in relationship with him enrich my life? How do I enrich his? He says he’s learned a lot about himself, that I have challenged him to be honest with himself and grow. I’m glad to have given him something for himself that he will have always and may make a difference for us and others in his life. But, i know that has been sometimes very difficult for both of us. What else do i contribute to his life, could i be contributing? I hate this question, but what about my growth, my need for input from him, from a loving place?
He tries. He is trying, but I feel like I’m withering. Like that struggling flower you want to tend,but just keep putting more water on it, without understanding why that isn’t making the difference. Before you know it, you’ve watered it to death.
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14 Replies
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Welcome to submrs!
Thank you for sharing all of that.
My Sir and I are only 7 months in and we have had our share of ups and downs, ebbs and flows….and still learning every day how to build our own dynamic. Patience was a hard lesson for me to learn (and I am still learning patience every day)…I want(ed) it all NOW (hence my name, lol). Patience is key though, that is what everyone told me in the beginning and still tell me now. I highly recommend (if you haven’t already) that you start to read the blog posts from the very oldest and work your way back to the present. And if you can join our New Sub Chats with KLB (our New Sub Advisor), I think that will answer a lot of your questions and give you some real insight. You can find when they are in the calendar at the top of every page…
This is a great community of subs and we all subport each other!Smooches,
V -
V, Thank you for your response. I do feel impatient. I know that doesn’t help either of us. I feel my patience is thinning, though, and not without good reason (if there ever really can be one). I hear him saying he wants this, but he can’t define for me what “this” means for him. I started with play, keeping it to sex and our “romantic” relationship. He was very clear about wanting to remain equals otherwise, and I was good with that. But, finding the boundaries for “romantic” life was very hard for us, when you throw in respect always, and honesty and communication. And, frankly, his need to get his way (hint hint :). Anyway, I spent my initial sub fever white knuckled and researching voraciously, sending him images, stories, articles, blogs. I asked him what he needed from me, and then I would do that, only to get little to no response. I’ve been through what I’ve learned many have been through in the beginning. Doing all the work on me and for him, to be left feeling like I’m spinning my wheels and baffled as to why, considering all I’d seen in him and us before.
What a huge relief it was, a surprising turn of events, when he took it upon himself to get help, admit his shortcomings, and renew his commitment to us and our D/s relationship and its development! I love him, and want the way he loved me before I brought this up and apparently confused everything. I want this with him more than I want anything else. And, I am willing to do my part, including practicing patience. I just need to know that we share a vision. Even if that vision includes compromise. That he gets where i am, even if he doesn’t want the same exact thing. But I cannot get him to eek out for me what he wants in any circumstance, or tell me how I can begin to earn that trust from him. He doesn’t seem to understand that he is not trusting me. He says he wants to learn how to “take care of” his submissive, but then my input is misunderstood.
I ache for more. I can admit that. I ache to give knowingly to him, to be swept up again in the concentrated focus of him. I have never been so close to my own feelings as when everything else is finally out of the way, and all I want to do is please him, be his. Looking at this part of myself is so new for me. Accepting it has been difficult, like many others here. I want/need his help. And, I know he needs help too, but I’ve yet to discover, despite all my efforts, how to help. What’s worked for some hasn’t worked for him. I miss the vivid color that is life when my submissive side breathes. And I can’t conjure her up alone. I don’t know her that well :).
“Patience is key though, that is what everyone told me in the beginning and still tell me now. I highly recommend (if you haven’t already) that you start to read the blog posts from the very oldest and work your way back to the present.” V
I’ve been told to read back to front before, thanks for the reminder. I will go back to doing that. It is hard to read all of the successes. Even though I’m glad people are finding their way and happiness in ttwd, I can’t help how heavy my heart gets with envy. I’m disgusted even with myself for that, but it is true. I want what I want in a relationship, for the first time in my life I actually know what that is and have a pretty good set of guiding principals at my disposal. And, I wouldn’t know any of this if not for who he is, and who he found in me. I wish he’d stop hiding.
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Even though I’m glad people are finding their way and happiness in ttwd, I can’t help how heavy my heart gets with envy.
One of the hardest things to do (even though I think we all do it in the beginning) is to stop comparing others D/s to our own. That only keeps you spinning your wheels faster and faster until you get burnt out. Everyone has a different dynamic and we all got there (or rather, getting there) in different ways and in different time frames. It is a learning process with many ebbs and flows. One couple’s “success” may have taken them years, but all we see is a snapshot of that time frame. I fully understand what you are saying, but I urge you to read not for comparison, but rather insight and then take it and make it to fit you and your Sir.
SLOW IS GOOD.
Say it with me…SLOW IS GOOD.
Here are some good links from LK that helped me a lot too, I hope they help!Phases of Dominance and submission
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You want him to open up and tell you his vision. Maybe he really doesn’t have one. That’s ok. I know I have desired for mine to have a vision in this but I am now content to know that he is enjoying it and sees it developing further. He doesn’t exactly know how.
You want him to open up and talk to you more. Is he of few words where you have many? Absolutely no offense you write beautifully. That just may be the way he is. I find it hard to express my feelings in words.
V is right the comparing gets you nowhere but heartache. You can glean ideas and things that may work for you but your goal is not what they have but improving what you have. You also can’t expect to be something you aren’t.
What is the one thing you want most or first? Besides everything. 😉
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Multiple choice then, Princess? ;P
My Bear is a dreamer with a wonderful imagination full of vivid detail and creative innovation. So far, we are retiring on a houseboat, building an underground house (yes, he wants to take me under ground :0), designing a castle-like interior for our bedroom suite, and so much more. All of these dreams are described in detail. He knows exactly what he wants for each vision, and when he sees or dreams up something else he wants to include, it clicks right into place like a lost puzzle piece. He’s not just a dreamer, either. He has customized vehicles he’s owned, built pieces he’s imagined, and has an entrepreneurial spirit and started his own home repair and renovation business. He can be quite verbose when it suits him!
I listed more than I needed to, I know, but these are things we started out with before I ever mentioned D/s and before our lives changed from being an empty nest couple, so to speak, to a household once more. His teenaged son and my youngest adult son have come to live with us. Bear has been through a major career change, going from 20 years in public safety as a first responder, leader, and instructor to finding a new professional place for him in a new time. It was a struggle for us both.
He has everything within him already; I just want to experience him again. We’ve been through a lot in our relatively short time together. But, with the hardest behind us, for now, I’m ready to let all of that go and move forward. Slow IS good, but stagnation is not. It’s time to start building the all important foundation before the next storm hits. Such is life, and I want us both to be as prepared as we can be. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. And, clear communication, which requires and extension of trust, is what I think we need MOST to BEGIN building.
He has told me early on that one of the things he loves about me is my strength. I’ve learned that it takes strength to be submissive. Honestly, I’m not sure that I am this strong. I want to be. But, I struggled years ago when I found a faith that asked me to submit to a power greater than myself. And, I’m struggling now. I’m asking for his help.
Thank you both for your help. I will continue reading and learning what I can. I will stop comparing. I appreciate so much that you both have taken the time to share with me. Hearing that I am the one that has more work to do is not easy to take, but since this is what I want, and I only have control of me, I guess its fair. More responses are welcome, if anyone has anything further.
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Ahh could be a few things. He can see vision for himself but maybe it’s harder when it affects you. Maybe he he doesn’t want to limit you with his visions. Maybe he doesn’t feel he knows enough yet to have that clear vision or be inspired.
Those are all dreams of his passions. Maybe this isn’t his passion. I do not think that doesn’t mean you won’t get it. That doesn’t mean at some point it won’t develop into that for him. He hasn’t said no he is trying. It may not be as high on the list in his thoughts. However, if the results are positive I think he will love the benefits and desire to keep it going.
For us I brought this to him and he was willing to try. What he loves the most is the connection it has brought us. That is what feeds him in this.
Are you a planner? Do you need to see the end before you leap? May have to get over that and I speak from experience. You may just have to enjoy the ride and let it all unfold how it will.
You touched on experience before that left him with negative feelings. It could take some to get over that. To see it can be different. All where the patience and clear honest and Consistent communication comes in. It may take longer where you have something to get over.
Stress takes time away from dreaming and in my experience does make this process take longer. Just last night I told Daddy that I thought he needed some homework. Some may find that appalling but hey it’s OUR dynamic and let me tell you the evening ended well. 😉 Anyway I told him that his mind is nearly always occupied with work and he doesn’t allow himself to think of other things. I asked him to spend 10 minutes a day exploring his erotic fantasies. I said he would not be able to tell me what they are if he doesn’t spend a little time daydreaming.
Mine also said the same thing about my strength. We’ve talked a lot. I can be strong but I also have a need to feel his strength over mine.
Keep talking about how you feel and what you would like and how much you love him and are not looking for a different person but an improved interaction between the two of you. I think some really get scared and lack confidence in this endeavor. Any little thing he does that makes you feel all warm inside – tell him. Chances are he didn’t even notice but if you point it out he can remember to do it again and see the kinds of things that work for you.
Turn around – have you made any progress at all? He is listening more? Revel in the progress and build upon it. You are only comparing to where you were before.
You always have more work to do. 😉
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Welcome Bearly!
You are very good at writing down your thoughts and feelings. I get the sense you must journal and find it cathartic.
One thing that stood out to me in your original post was your bfDom’s previous history in a BDSM relationship gone bad. That could be affecting him more than HE even knows. Our subconscious is a mysterious thing. Also, his profession of 20 years required a TON of compartmentalization and stoicism. It is going to take time to break through that armor that first got donned with the bad relationship and secondly was so necessary for his mental survival.
I will re-iterate the others, patience and perseverance, with constant communication! Downtime is great but if you hit a stumbling block, it is better to call out discussion immediately rather than wait for the “formal, scheduled downtime”. Do what works for your dynamic. Another sub sister on here gave me those words of wisdom and they really helped us. We were trying (and failing) to be too formal. You guys may need more communication than weekly formal downtime. Remember, there is no real handbook for this. The “rules” are yours to create for your dynamic!
We see so many on here that want to run before they walk, that is common for many of us. It is exciting, like adrenaline! But you need to take your time and crawl, walk and then finally you can run with the wind!Again, welcome!
Bliss -
His response to this thread has been a declaration of love for me and statement of enduring commitment to us and our D/s relationship. He has said I should not assume this is not his passion, too. So, Im going to take him at his word.
I am grateful for your help. You guys helped me see I’d stopped thinking about the possibility that he’s struggling with more than just “doing” this. Instead, I’d become consumed by my own feelings. Thank you all for the redirection, personal insights, and wisdom.
Some men just can’t follow. Maybe, they are stubborn, maybe they are so extroverted they have to learn through trial and error, use their own experiences, find their own way. Maybe for some, it is trust; they just trust themselves more than anyone else. Whatever my Bear’s reason, I have ascertained that he cannot follow me in this. So, I have decided that I will let go of the reins, trust what I do know about his ability to learn and lead, and wait for his willingness at his pace.
I am not quitting, so much as I am surrendering control that doesn’t really exist. And, hopefully, I can begin to BE in whatever will become our journey, rather than trying to make our journey be what I thought it should. I don’t need to see the end. It’s a relief to come to that. I’m going to grope around in the dark awhile. That’s scary, but so what! I ain’t ‘fraid o’ the dark.
I’ve told him in the nicest way that I know how that I will wait for him now. I will focus on the positive, encourage the growth, and wait to be asked to contribute. I will remove all of the expectations, and that means stopping behavior that leads to setting up expectations of which he is not even aware. He’s okay with this, and since this is our thing that we are gonna do, and we agree, I’m okay with it, too.
I dont expect I will always feel this calm about it, but I admire him as a man. I loved him before this. I will love him through it. And, I will struggle with me rather than him. Thank you, sister subs for your honesty, for listening, and being here. I’m not nearly done needing your help. I’m glad this community is here.
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I am not quitting, so much as I am surrendering control that doesn’t really exist. And, hopefully, I can begin to BE in whatever will become our journey, rather than trying to make our journey be what I thought it should.
That is the key! Work on your submission instead of trying to make him Dominant. As you grow in your submission, you will feed his Dom…and then TRUST your Sir to build your foundation with you, in which ever way HE is comfortable with. I found that the more I worried about what he wasn’t doing (or that he wasn’t doing what I thought he should), the more frustrated I became. It wasn’t until I was given the advise, from this community, to work on my part and not worry about his that my Sir SHOWED me his Dom. I couldn’t ask him to be in control and be Dominant if I was wanting to dictate just HOW that happened.
Good luck and smooches,
V
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Sounds very positive 😀
Yes expectations will get you in trouble all the time. -
I love this!! ❤️ I find myself expecting him to be a certain way and forget that he is his own. If I work on my submission, he becomes more dominant than all the pushing I did. I love that he doesn’t need to be like any other Sir, but his own kind. Each dynamic is beautiful in their own way.
Thanks V! -
Some men just can’t follow. Maybe, they are stubborn, maybe they are so extroverted they have to learn through trial and error, use their own experiences, find their own way. Maybe for some, it is trust; they just trust themselves more than anyone else. Whatever my Bear’s reason, I have ascertained that he cannot follow me in this. So, I have decided that I will let go of the reins, trust what I do know about his ability to learn and lead, and wait for his willingness at his pace.
That is the crux of it! He is the Dominant you are the submissive, that is if all what you have been saying you want are your true feelings. Dominant’s DON”T follow…they LEAD. We, the submissive, follow. You have to give up that control and get really, deep in touch with your submissive side! When you are beginning you can consider suggesting things, communication what you hope, dream and want out of this relationship but not in the context of “leading”, this is done in the context of open communication and sharing. The more you open up and allow him to lead at the pace he is comfortable with the better off you will be.
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I can see that is my place in this now. I guess, for me, in the beginning, I believed that since I had brought this up, done so much initial research, and could draw some of the parallels to us that I needed to sort of guide us. I had read elsewhere, too, that it is not uncommon for the intended submissive or bottom to guide, captain, or in other words, lead, until the time came for the intended Dominant to begin to feel confident enough to start taking over. I guess I expected there to be some kind of smooth transition. Haha. But, not every pattern, method, or even kink works the same for everyone. And, in our case, I was blind to that. I kept seeking ways to help him and us, to guide better, and communicate better all in an effort to get what I thought would be better results, instead of taking stock in the results that were there, and beginning the transition myself.
It’s very hard to just BE submissive when your whole life you’ve been trained otherwise. I’m sure most of us know what that’s like. Grappling with new ideas, new feelings, and desires that seem so prompted by something external, it’s easy to believe that you need his Dominance to grow into your submissive nature. I’m finding now, there are submissive singles and sole married submissive who are finding ways to nurture this part of themselves, regardless of the immediate responses from others. That seems like a most difficult journey to me, but one that inspires me to begin with what I can control.
He is trying. And, my letting go of the fallisy, for us, that I need to guide him to an expected point, is allowing me to focus on my submission. I’m already happier and calmer. And, he’s already stepped a little farther forward.
Thanks, again.
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So glad to read this! Just remember…it doesn’t matter how big or small the step is, all that matters is that the step is forward! 😀
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